Salus Forum December 3, 2025

Jack

I grew up literally next door to the church. We lived in the manse. My father probably did 12 hours a week of counseling as part of three or four evenings a week, three or four days a week. In addition to pastoral care at the hospital or the nursing home, he had probably 10 to 12 hours of counseling sessions that he did as a pastoral counselor. He took extra training in that and didn’t charge for it. It was free to members and non-members. I can remember some of his clients were not members of our church. So, I think he was one who took mental health very seriously.

And not everyone does. As you mentioned, Jeff, some denominations are less interested in this. I didn’t really include much in this book or this work around those folks. Because you start running up against things that the theology or the social constructs are not what I’m looking for when there are still 80% of the other churches that do believe in healthcare. So, I really focused on this. The goal is to create a textbook for seminaries that would offer an initial insight for people studying to be clergy about their role in healthcare.

Jeremy

I just think that when the hospital chaplain started, I am sure all of these issues surfaced and that there was some methodology developed to professionalize. Because the chaplains in hospitals, it’s a specialty for them, really. They learn how to do that. And what I hear you say, Jack, is that there’s a whole cascade of ambulatory, untrained chaplain types, clergy, who are doing their best without any necessary training. And yet, they’re confronting lots of complex health challenges in their congregations. That may be professionalizing.

Jack

All of you probably know about the white boxes with a thousand people in the community. Each month, 250 will see their primary care doctor, 10 will be hospitalized, and one will be hospitalized in a tertiary care medical center. Well, that’s the same for pastoral congregants and parishioners. There’s a bunch of them out in the churches, and every once in a while, one of them gets hospitalized. The clergy know how to work with them; however, most clergy make their living outside the hospital setting. So, while chaplains are absolutely necessary, they’re not sufficient, in my opinion. So, I’m curious, where are we currently with the science of ensuring that this opportunity to improve healthcare for all includes clergy?

Walt

What studies are there about patient safety that involve clergy and don’t involve clergy? Like, you gave that example of the person in the emergency room, and it was an external clergy person who was saying things. I wonder what was going on internally. Are there clergy on the Safety and Quality Improvement Committee? Are there people who are involved in developing the actual procedures and requirements and so forth that hardwire it into the system itself for that hospital, for that medical system? Is there anything nationally? Are there publications? Are there studies about this?