Warren

Yeah, right. So, I have another question. We’ve seen people try to replace in-person meetings with video meetings, one for one. And this is a COVID effect. But the question for me is, how can you start it? And what’s the depth of connection? And I’m really troubled by this because I see lots of video connections. Clearly you can transfer information very well through webinars or whatnot. But I’m skeptical about the actual exchange of ideas that goes to the next level. But I may just be an old fart. But what is the right balance? This is true for not just innovation, but how you start with knowing people personally. Maybe the Dunbar number is right. There may be some limit to that. This is a limit I’m testing now, Jeremy, in my current residency and in a BFM role. But clearly you can extend it with that. But I see people trying to do things fully virtual. You can do something with that, but it’s not the deep change that you’re going to look for. And yet that’s very difficult for people. It’s just a tough thing. I’m curious how all of you are with this right now. I find this really challenging because I don’t think the default, you got to go virtual, really makes sense. Although it’s easy to say.

Bill B

The graduate school where I served as president did a lot with virtual education. Our students were from all over the world. So, our classes at the doctoral level were virtual. Except once a year, we had a gathering where we came together. But it was poignant that our students said that it is quite powerful when we did get together, because, in some sense, there was already intimacy. The seeds of intimacy, one of our people said, were planted virtually. So, when we did come together, it was extraordinary. The blossoming of intimacy and support was very interesting. The typical, accepted model is that you start with the in-person session and then do virtual. What we found is that it also can work the other way.

Jeremy

I think that most of the medical groups tend to have a couple of in-person meetings a year, based intuitively on what you have said Warren. Something different happens when you’re physically in the presence of people. And yet it doesn’t have to be exclusively that, which I think provides the hybrid potential. I think with a small enough group like this, there’s a level of intimacy and safety that can be created even virtually. But again, most of us know each other a little bit through personal interaction. So, it’s not really a fair example. If you took people who had absolutely no prior contact with each other and stuck them in a virtual room like this, I don’t know what would happen unless there was a very skilled facilitator.

It probably wouldn’t go too well. [laughter]