Bill B

There is a point in some of the writing Jeremy and Bill have been doing about complex adaptive systems where we bring in the work of Ralph Stacey. He is one of the theorists who writes about the cracks and breaks in a system where things make no sense.

Something is shattered. It’s in the shattered niches of this system that new creative ideas emerge. So, in that sense, Jack and Bill (G), you’re talking about weird cracks—the shattering that has occurred with Kennedy and Oz. Could some of those cracks be the site of creative ideas and actions? Is there a little glimmer of hope in that?

Jeremy

Jack, in background conversations I have had at the California Academy level, people are trying to figure out how to sort of link your wagon with someone offering policies you vehemently oppose—namely their vaccine policy–and yet witness their emphasis on primary health care. Kennedy and Oz want to change the NIH to emphasize primary healthcare research, which I’m sure is directly important to you, Jack. Historically, this research has been underfunded through NIH. AHRQ has tried to fund it, but it gets a tiny amount. Then there is the whole ultra-processed food area that RFK and Oz have criticized. So, it becomes one of these Faustian bargains. And it was interesting to hear Bill G’s take on this issue, because that’s the same take I have. This is one instance where perhaps we should hold our nose and jump in, because they’re going to smash things. And if they’re going to smash things, that means opportunities that have not been possible since 1933. And not just with the Farm Bill, but with a lot of things.

I have a sense that major background opposition will be mounted by the ag industry alongside big pharma and big business. Right now, they’re sitting with all those Republicans saying “don’t you dare approve this guy.” I have a feeling he may fall on the weight of the Republicans. That is why those on the other political side are probably going to hold off advocacy until they see whether he survives a GOP vote. And if he gets selected, I think there will be direct advocacy. And I hope as well at the AAFP level, and the CMA and AMA level.

Jack

Jeremy, I just don’t see any of the big clinical organizations stepping up to the Farm Bill. So, how do we change that?

Jeremy

Well, RFK is going to smash everything if he gets in there. That’s part of what the public seems to have said. We want to smash. We want to slash and burn. The education department is going to be eliminated. So, the smashers are going to be in charge. The question is, in the aftermath, are we engaged or not? That’s how I see it. I don’t think they’re going to publicly associate until he’s smashed things.