Bill B

Mark, one of the things you’re saying is that the problem identified by Gay concerned being a woman. Many men confront the same problem.  if you’re not a fairly good athlete, you’re not going to have that mentorship. And Mark, as you were saying during this previous forum, if you are living in a socio-economically disadvantaged setting then you look out on the street for a mentor. Your mentor becomes the person who’s pushing the drugs. So, finding a mentor is selective. For women, sports could be one way in which they find a mentor if they’re growing up in poverty.

Jack

This brings up a couple of things for me. There’s this concept my kids have taught me. It’s about type one and type two fun. Type one fun is like having a birthday cake. Everybody sings happy birthday to you, and you get to eat chocolate cake, and it’s really fun. But then there’s this type two fun that is like running a marathon, where it’s painful, or being on a roller coaster, or seeing a scary movie, where it’s really frightening, and it activates you. Afterwords it’s like, wow, that was really fun. And this seems to relate to the notion of allostasis. Is this a threat? Or is this a challenge? Is this type one fun, where it really feels good? Or is this type two fun, where it’s painful at the time, but afterward it feels good. I think maybe it’s a matter of framing, or it’s a matter of expectations. I don’t know. But I do know that I don’t like scary movies.  On the other hand, I just ran The Turkey Trot, and it was very much type two fun. I was miserable for 50 minutes and 54 seconds. I know that because I had on a chip. But afterwards, walking back to the car with my kids and my wife, we were having so much fun.

There is a second thing I want to mention that goes way back before athletics.  I think there’s a pretty solid bit of evidence regarding what happens during the first two years of your life. The way in which your needs are met by the world can set up the reaction you will have for the rest of your life. If, when you cry, somebody comforts you. When you’re wet, somebody dries you. When you’re hungry, you get fed. This really ingrains many of those responses for a long time. And that may be part of the framing of threat versus challenge. This framing for me may be based in part on what happened in my first two years of life.  When I was hungry, I was fed. When I was wet, I was dried. When I cried, I was held. I know this because I was in a family that was responsive in this regard. So, it’s easier for me to see things as a challenge than for my friend Bill McCracken. During his first two years, his mother gave him up to his grandparents. When he cried, they put him in another room and let him cry. And his grandfather was a drunk and hit him. So his response is almost always threat. Those are just two things I wanted to contribute. And I’m all for type one fun. And I’m trying to lean into type two fun so that I can be cool and hang out with my kids.

Bill B

Jack, when you’re talking about type one fun there will be oxytocin (as Jeremy mentioned). Actually, in many ways, the oxytocin is going to be flowing even before the birthday cake is served. What about type two fun? Does it end up with oxytocin or is there something a bit different at the end of this fun-filled type two episode. What occurs regarding hormones and neurotransmitters when you’re exhausted. It’s been a wonderful experience. Its almost as if I’m going to hit my head against the wall once again because it feels so good when I quit.