Gay

Some adrenaline must be involved in type two fun. There must be some adrenaline because as Jack noted, there’s often fear or a scare. In some ways, the reason it was enjoyable after the run is because the event’s over. So, after the event (such as an amusement park ride) is over there is relief. This sort of experience induces a certain level of fear. I assume that there’s got to be some adrenaline in type two fun. And I wonder about type one being more closely related to dopamine rather than oxytocin. How then would that play a part in the choice between threat and challenge? The other thing that Jack was speaking about is absolutely central to attachment bonding and attachment theory. How you are bonded between the age of zero and two is critical. There can be a disruption in bonding even in functional families if there has been some extreme disruption. As an example, I was talking to a client about this issue yesterday. Her girlfriend’s parents lost their four-year-old child when my girlfriend was one and a half years old. The traumatized mom could not even bond and attach to the second baby because of her own grief. So even in what we would consider upbringing in a functional family, this breach of attachment can happen. As a result, life does feel threatening. As opposed to challenging.

Bill G

The issue is that type one and type two fun bring up the other part of the matrix. What is the external reality that you’re facing? And you can be really fouled up if you misread a true threat as an opportunity and end up in the lion’s mouth. The Romans and the Greeks were impressed with the Celts because the Celts pumped themselves up for battle and exhibited this fierce aura. However, the Celts were easily slaughtered because they would run naked directly into the spears. So, I have a problem with this typology of threat and challenge if consideration isn’t given to the external reality of whatever the challenge really is.  You know, if you mistake type one and type two, you can be in deep shit very quickly.

Bill B

You also have the matter of adrenaline that Gay introduced. You can get addicted to your own adrenaline. You end up with people who are hooked on their own adrenaline. And so they need type two joy all the time. They need to keep pumping up—especially if they’re at work. So, you have people who generate crises at work precisely so they can deal with the challenge. They’re hooked on their own adrenaline and like other addictions, the amount of adrenaline has to continually increase. Bill, I was thinking of your Celts who were pumping up for battle. That means you have to be engaged in battle all the time. And you end up eventually with spears sticking through your belly. Obviously, when we look at the selection of people for the new cabinet, we have some folks that are hooked on adrenaline.

Jeremy

Yeah, absolutely. And there are addictions to dopamine. Dopamine was a focus during our last forum, which was led by Scott Sandland, who is the CEO of an AI company for pro-social AI. He’s looking to write algorithms that help secrete oxytocin rather than dopamine, This pro-social AI is to counter the current modality and focus on dopamine as a way to keep our eyeballs glued to the website. And the longer the current AI folks can do it through dopamine hits, the more money everybody makes. It’s creating a whole addictive subculture now that’s very hard to leave. I’m sure it’s hitting both the health and mental health industries.

There are other major implications for the young at the present time.  Now at 18 months, the bonding is with their digital babysitter.