July 1, 2026 Salus Health Care Forum

Mark

Well, when I gave ketamine, the patients would be talking with me. The were not knocked out, but they were dissociative. So I can’t answer your question, other than I was just flying by the seat of my pants, to be honest. I was using their favorite music, talking to them in a calm fashion. I had one patient tell me the starting lineup to the 1968 World Championship Detroit Tigers. You never know where it’s going to go. It’s not a Band-Aid. I took it very seriously. And whenever people started taking on more toxicity instead of releasing,  I would give Benzos.  So again, it’s very individualized. For most people, it was a very pleasant experience, but for about one in five, it was not. Just so you know.

Bill B

So, Jack, you’re right. Some of the things that hop in on the train are not toxic. The psychic matter on the train can be very pleasant. For instance, I know the train is attracting pleasant riders when I listen to a particular piece out of Mahler. And whatever and wherever the train is, suddenly I’m getting Gustav Mahler hopping on the train with the full symphony orchestra. And when that occurs, my train tends to change.

Jeremy

Wow. Well, we’re at time, so I’m going to try to wind this down. Although I would love to keep talking for another hour, What a delightful array of discussion topics. Thank you, Gay and Mark for bringing this topic to the surface. I will add that I’ve got a palliative care musicologist coming in January. So I think I’m going to try and get her to connect with the two of you so that we can kind of keep this conversation going about the therapeutic capacity of music in